Were David's future sins forgiven at the moment of his conversion? (Quickie Apologetics)

I'm not sure if I have posted this before, but I want to make a quick post about it. I'd say that 'moderate/intermediate' level of Catholic apologetics knows that when Romans 4:6-8 speaks of the justification of David in Psalm 32, that this prayer in Psalm 32 was not the first time that David came to faith. Instead, David had been converted to God since David was a young man (1 Sam 17:33-37). In this case of Psalm 32, David was praying about repenting of his adultery/murder in 2 Samuel 12:13-14, where as an adult David committed mortal sin and needed to repent. Thus, if Psalm 32 is talking about Justification, as Paul says it is, this can only mean David lost his salvation by mortal sin and regained it when he repented. This refutes/undermines the standard Protestant claim that Justification cannot be lost by our sin (or regained by Repenting). This brilliant insight was first made by Robert Sungenis about 25 years ago in his published book Not By Faith Alone.

That said, certain Protestants like James White insist that David's future sins were (also) forgiven per David's words of Psalm 32, which is a serious presumption since the Bible only ever talks of past sins being forgiven. That's because the Reformed are forced to teach all future sins are forgiven in order to uphold their other erroneous views, namely Faith Alone and Imputation (discussed many times on this blog). But what if we can look even further into David's life, years later as King, and see him falling into sin again? That would obviously cause serious problems to the White/Reformed thesis. And indeed there is such a text, discovered by the Catholic blogger [HERE], where he points out that the final chapter of 2 Samuel, specifically 2 Sam 24:10, speaks of an elderly David disobeying God in another serious manner:

10 But David's heart struck him after he had numbered the people. And David said to the Lord, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done. But now, O Lord, please take away the iniquity of your servant, for I have done very foolishly.” . . . 17 Then David spoke to the Lord when he saw the angel who was striking the people, and said, “Behold, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly. But these sheep, what have they done? Please let your hand be against me and against my father's house.”

It is clear that David had sin/iniquity on his conscience before God for his bad behavior, and David was again praying for forgiveness. It is clear that God was even punishing David for his sins and had to do Penance to fix it (2 Sam 24:24-25). This is impossible if David's future sins were forgiven years earlier when David prayed Psalm 32. This is impossible if David was "covered by Christ's imputed righteousness" such that God doesn't see David's behavior but rather only sees David as righteous at all times. I think this is a wonderful find and believe it raises a Catholic to 'advanced/expert' level when he includes 2 Samuel 24:10 along with pointing out that Psalm 32 was about David's sin in 2 Samuel 12. We simply must make use of powerful arguments like these, because they can be very effective against Protestants.

The Achilles Heel of Seventh Day Adventism: 1844

The Seventh Day Adventists are best known for their promotion of "Seventh Day" (Saturday/Sabbath) Worship (which I've discussed Here), but surprisingly that Sabbath teaching isn't even their most important doctrine! Since SDAs are quite often militant against Catholics, I think this apologetics piece will be quite handy in stopping them dead in their tracks. The key is to look at the other half of their name: Adventist.

The SDAs have "28 Fundamental Beliefs" [Here] which are basically their unique set of dogmas that are required believing for any SDA to be in good standing. While everyone is aware of their Sabbath teaching, what is far less known is that the SDAs have a dogma concerning the year 1844, and the reason why you don't know about it is because it is quite embarrassing for the SDAs. The full text of the Fundamental Belief #24 says:

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Lev. 16; Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Heb. 1:3; 2:16, 17; 4:14-16; 8:1-5; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; Rev. 8:3-5; 11:19; 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:11, 12.)

You might be having a hard time understanding what is being said in the above FD#24 about this "Investigative Judgment" (I.J.), but that's because it isn't meant to make sense. The dogma is complete nonsense, reworded in order to save face as to the original meaning. If you read the official page dedicated to explaining this IJ [here] you will see that it spends many paragraphs saying nonsense. However, it does give us some details as to what it all originally meant, such as the following quote (trimmed back for length): 

The limitations of the Nicene Creed in the Filioque debate

There is a great Catholic channel on YouTube called Reason & Theology and they recently featured a discussion on the Filioque (here). They have multiple episodes on the Filioque and other related topics, but this episode stood out for its unique insights by guest speaker Nathaniel. Most discussions on the Filioque tend to cover the same points, so it was great to hear what I now believe is the most important point, which I want to present here.

The Eastern Orthodox say the Filioque is not merely unauthorized modification of the Creed, but even that the Filioque is actually heresy because the EO claim that "proceeding" is a technical theological term that is reserved exclusively for the relation between the Father and the Holy Spirit. So in their mind, "proceeds" is used as the 'unique identifier' for the Third Person of the Holy Trinity. Similarly, the EO hold that "begotten" is reserved exclusively for the relation between the Father and the Son, so "begotten" is the 'unique identifier' for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. The terms "begotten" and "proceeds" are 'actions' performed by the Father alone, and these two unique actions are the only 'thing' that distinguish the Three Persons in the Trinity. For example if there are two persons being "begotten" by the Father, then this would mean there are two sons in the Trinity, which is heresy. So the Holy Spirit must be something different than "begotten" by the Father. Similarly, it is said if the Son can produce a Person, then the Son would become another Father, which is also heresy. So the EO hold that the only way to prevent duplicate persons is the "Unbegotten Father; Begotten Son; Proceeding Spirit" understanding of the Trinity. This argument is fair and relatively straightforward. The main problem is that there is no official definition for what "proceeding" is, so it is actually impossible to formally say the Son cannot also be involved in some way with "proceeding," and some Catholics have argued that without the Son's involvement, then "proceeding" would be indistinguishable from "begetting". Historically, the bulk of the Filioque dispute with the EO has been over what "proceeds" actually means, since without having agreement on that term, it is extremely difficult to come to doctrinal agreement.

What is amazing about the argument made by Nathaniel in the YouTube discussion was that he explained that the Nicene Creed was never meant to dogmatize terms like "proceeding," but rather was focused more narrowly on affirming the Divinity of the Son and Holy Spirit. As long as a Christian affirmed the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was Divine, then that Christian was orthodox. If Nathaniel's claim is indeed the case, then terms like "proceeds" cannot be turned into church-dividing issues, because such detail is outside the goal of the Creed. If you talk to the average practicing Christian who knows the Creed, they aren't even aware of such sophisticated details. Let's consider some reasons why the Creed never intended to turn "proceeds" into a crucial sophisticated theological term:

Ukraine, Russia, and Jehovah's Witnesses

End times prophecy is such an important part of the Jehovah's Witnesses that they are one of the few groups who are excited to hear all the "bad news" going on in the world the past few years. Their featured story today on the Jehovah's Witnesses official website has an article "Russia Invades Ukraine: Is Bible Prophecy Being Fulfilled?" In that featured article, they link back to the May 2020 Watchtower Magazine where they said:

“In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with the king of the north in a pushing.”​- Daniel 11:40.

[Page 5] During World War I, the United States and Britain were welded into a powerful military alliance. At that time, Britain and its former colony became the Anglo-American World Power. As Daniel foretold, this king had amassed  “an exceedingly large and mighty army.” (Dan. 11:25) Throughout the last days, the Anglo-American alliance has been the king of the south.  Who, though, has filled the role of the king of the north?

[Page 6] Soon after World War II ended, the new king of the north, the Soviet Union and its allies, launched his own assault on God’s people. In harmony with the prophecy recorded at Revelation 12:15-17, this king banned our preaching work and sent thousands of Jehovah’s people into exile. In fact, throughout the last days, the king of the north has poured out “a river” of persecution in an unsuccessful attempt to stop the work of God’s people.

[Page 7] The king of the north has supported the king of the south in one key endeavor; they “put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.” (Dan. 11:31) That “disgusting thing” is the United Nations. The United Nations organization is described as a “disgusting thing” because it claims to be able to do something that only God’s Kingdom can do​—bring world peace.

[Page 13] Note why we can say that today the king of the north is Russia and its allies. (1) They have had a direct impact on God’s people, banning the preaching work and persecuting hundreds of thousands of brothers and sisters who live in areas under their control. (2) Those actions show that they hate Jehovah and his people. (3) They have been competing with the king of the south, the Anglo-American World Power.

The king of the north and the king of the south continue to compete for world domination. For example, consider what happened after World War II when the Soviet Union and its allies gained influence over much of Europe. The actions of the king of the north forced the king of the south to form an international military alliance, known as NATO. The king of the north continues to compete with the king of the south in an expensive arms race. The king of the north fought his rival in proxy wars and insurgencies in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. In recent years, Russia and its allies have spread their influence across the globe. They have also engaged with the king of the south in cyber warfare. The kings have accused each other of using destructive computer programs in an effort to damage their economies and political systems.

[Page 14] In 2017, this current king of the north banned the work of Jehovah’s people and threw some of our brothers and sisters into prison. He also banned our publications, including the New World Translation. Further, he confiscated our branch office in Russia as well as Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls. After these actions, in 2018 the Governing Body identified Russia and its allies as the king of the north.
Who Is “the King of the North” Today?

Much of this sounds like the typical Protestant reading of the Bible's two main "prophetic books," the books of Daniel and Revelation. Many Protestants are bringing up similar points today with Russia being the "king of the north" in this current Ukraine conflict. This kind of Biblical interpretation became popular in the 1900s with American & British Protestantism's reading of the Bible, as Protestantism had lost its place in Europe after the World Wars and needed to find an "explanation" for why these wars happened. So it is no surprise that the American Protestants who lead the Jehovah's Witnesses speak of 'finding' the United States and Russia within Biblical prophecy. You've got to admit, Protestantism has a way of being entertaining, and why we shouldn't entirely ignore this (though most of it is a complete waste of time).

 

Brief thoughts on Fasting during Lent

I know I'm a few days late with this post, but I've just to share that Fasting has been on my mind a lot leading into this Lent. I've been praying about how to truly Fast this Lent, because too many years have gone by with hardly any effort put in, and that needs to change. Thankfully, I've been noticing various Catholic articles, videos, posts, etc, coming out encouraging "real" Fasting. The reality is, it is scandalous, shameful, and even partly sinful, the way the West has largely abandoned any meaningful encouragement to real Fasting. It is especially tragic when the "traditionalist" side has hardly mentioned Fasting, and has basically gone along with the bare minimum as well. This year, I want to really make a conscious effort to do some real Fasting during Lent, and have this become part of my life at other times of the year as well.

To give you a brief introduction to "real" Fasting, the historical understanding of Fasting had two components: (1) you avoided meat, dairy, sweets, and flavorings throughout Lent, and (b) that you ate roughly one meal and possibly a snack or two throughout Lent. The Byzantine Rites and Syriac Rites still require this type of "real" Fasting throughout Lent (and other times of the year) with some variations. The Latin Rite used to canonically require this type of "real" Fasting throughout Lent as well, but for reasons that I'm not aware of yet, the Latin Rite gradually relaxed the 'challenge' at a few key times. I recently read that just prior to the French Revolution (a major disaster for the Church and world), the Pope at the time said you could start eating meat during Lent as long as it was only at the main meal (and never on Fridays). The connection might be a coincidence, but then an even more drastic change happened in the late 1960s, just before the Sexual Revolution erupted the prior year the Pope said you only have to Fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. This really does make you wonder if many of the problems in the Church today are tied to the complete neglect to "real Fasting". To be honest, we cannot even use the term Fasting if we aren't talking about real Fasting. The Latin side should actually be ashamed of not Fasting in any meaningful sense for so long. And we can be certain that Satan rejoices in our neglect of Fasting, especially those of us who are otherwise practicing the Faith throughout the week.

And to be more honest, I think we are all capable of "real Fasting", but we are spiritually immature and are afraid to try it. I think for too long we have made excuses or turned a blind eye, or proposed alternatives like giving up social media. All this to avoid "real Fasting". I'm not saying any of this to brag or put down people who have genuine needs and have to modify their needs. The point is that we need to be discussing this more and encouraging each other. This encouragement needs to include setting your Fasting goals high, rather than starting so small that you really aren't being challenged. This encouragement needs to also include how we should stop deluding ourselves by finding loopholes that actually mock the Fast, including avoiding things such as (a) meat-substitutes that taste as enjoyable as the real meat, such as veggie burgers, (b) flavorful alternatives such as McDonalds Filet of Fish (not to mention the meatless fries and soda), and (c) any restaurant or food that is generally enjoyable to eat, including sushi, grilled cheese, veggie pizza, etc, and (d) enjoyable drinks, including sodas, alcohols, beers, juices, etc. (I think coffee, tea, etc, can be permissible depending on what stage you are personally at.) We need to be honest with ourselves that if we are enjoying the taste of our food, that is a warning that we are probably not Fasting. I speak as one who has repeatedly made excuses many years, but this year I want to really make an effort to avoid meat, dairy, flavorful foods, and regular sized meals, throughout Lent. I am well aware how weak I am at resolutions, so I'm not pretending to be a guru or that I will not fall at times, but I know other people can be more strong, and I hopefully can encourage them. I wont pretend to be at the level of avoiding spices, and eating only bread, water, rice, etc, during Lent, but that is a beautiful thing to aspire to.

Fasting has many beautiful elements to it, including key parts in Scripture, such as the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve had to "fast" from eating of the Tree. Fasting is tied to proper experience of Liturgy and Prayer, which means Fasting is tied to truly experiencing God. Our Lord Jesus says some evils can only be driven out by "Fasting and Prayer". Paul says he fasted many times (2 Cor 11:27). Spiritual masters in the Church have even explained that Fasting is the key to breaking our main sinful struggles, including sexual habits and pride. We must stop neglecting Fasting if we want to make real change in the Church and ourselves. I would say it is impossible to grow spiritually if one main pillar like Fasting is completely ignored. With things so unhealthy in the Church these days, we have to encourage each other individually, and God Willing soon the Church will make things more mandatory, so we can Fast as a community, not merely individually.