tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post7411232766540478894..comments2024-03-15T09:07:15.798-07:00Comments on NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Did Clement of Rome teach Faith Alone? - Revisiting Abraham's faith reckoned as righteousness - Part 6Nickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-85168227074042963572022-08-11T06:22:19.565-07:002022-08-11T06:22:19.565-07:00The language of "dead" versus "livi...The language of "dead" versus "living" faith is not really helpful in Protestant vs Catholic discussions, because the language is used differently by both sides. What is important is to see if Clement is gives certain details that supports one side versus the other, for example Clement's consistent use of "justify/dikaiow". Another is the fact Clement32.2 is quoting Gen22, which is a 'vindication' moment in Abraham's life.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-59468414450681028782022-08-10T20:13:24.088-07:002022-08-10T20:13:24.088-07:00Hi Nick,
When Clement states the word Faith, he a...Hi Nick,<br /><br />When Clement states the word Faith, he always means a Living Faith. The issue is not whether we are justified by Faith Alone, but whether we possess a Living Faith or a Dead Faith. Clement is speaking of a living Faith. <br /><br />Here is a question: What is the Biblical Definition of a Dead Faith? <br /><br />BlessingsR. Zellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12891244748429268870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-34842368490072942492022-05-24T20:17:41.648-07:002022-05-24T20:17:41.648-07:00Tagging is very useful, for a series like that nee...Tagging is very useful, for a series like that needs to be easy to find. If someone years from here find, say, part 4, and want to see what came later it will take more time that would be convenient.<br /><br />And the Joseph observation is interesting, never though about that<br /> <br />Talmidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-37054690658724926412022-05-24T09:47:26.724-07:002022-05-24T09:47:26.724-07:00I'm not sure if Clement mentioned Joseph, but ...I'm not sure if Clement mentioned Joseph, but generally the Bible gives the trio of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The reason Joseph might not be mentioned is that the blessed lineage of Abraham was now split into Twelve Tribes, and so it wasn't immediately clear which of those Tribes the Messiah would come from, though Genesis 38 gives a clue.<br /><br />I like the idea of tagging the posts of this series. I totally forgot to even tag this one at all. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-24226978975041015702022-05-22T20:37:45.550-07:002022-05-22T20:37:45.550-07:00Also, do you mark the posts of this series? It wou...Also, do you mark the posts of this series? It would make founding they easier but it does not appear here that they have their own category.Talmidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-42221988880140513682022-05-22T20:35:32.607-07:002022-05-22T20:35:32.607-07:00Good post there, Nick, it shows very well how the ...Good post there, Nick, it shows very well how the pressupositions that one take to the table can change how the text is understood. The points about St. Clement mentioning the creation narrative and the use of "reckon" on the Exodus are very interesting points, and ones that are on the text!<br /><br />The idea that God justify us not by any good deed we do is sure something you find on the early Church. Our Lord sacrifice is necesary to our new life but not a good deed of ours, after all! But the particular protestant way of understand this not so much, the new life in Christ is clearly the focus. Just try to say to a church father that a christian need not to show a profound transformation!<br /><br />I also liked your comparison between the patriarchs lifes and the spiritual life. I just founded weird how St. Clement and you both never mention Joseph, was he not part of the patriarchs? I admit that i ask in part because he is my favorite one xD<br /><br />Talmidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-73527170166131780052022-05-20T08:12:34.134-07:002022-05-20T08:12:34.134-07:00I'm looking at the Hebrew word for reckon/coun...I'm looking at the Hebrew word for reckon/count, and it is used about ten times to refer to "craftsman". Consider: <br /><br />[Exo 31:2-4 KJV] 2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri: 3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 To devise cunning [reckoning] works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass<br /><br />[Exo 35:35 KJV] 35 Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning [reckoner] workman, and of the embroiderer <br /><br />[Exo 36:8 KJV] 8 And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains [of] fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: [with] cherubims of cunning [reckoner] work made he them.<br /><br />Many times in Exodus the term "reckon" is translated as cunning craftsman who are specially skilled to build the temple and make the garments. It obviously took special skills to be able to do this. In these texts, it strongly suggests that God filled them with the Holy Spirit and inspirations, to turn these men into those who could reckon, i.e., be amazing workers. There might be a connection here to my theory that 'faith enabled righteousness' along the lines of 'faith skilled Abraham to be able to do righteousness'. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-12665555983612897732022-05-20T07:41:05.150-07:002022-05-20T07:41:05.150-07:00The inspiration has not stopped, as I have just be...The inspiration has not stopped, as I have just been inspired with a Part 7 of the Revisiting Abraham's faith reckoned as righteousness. <br /><br />I was pondering what St Clement says in 31:2 above: <br />"2 On what account was our father Abraham blessed? Was it not that he wrought righteousness and truth through faith? 3 Isaac, with confidence, knowing the future, willingly became a sacrifice."<br /><br />Clement seems to be explaining this Justification as Abraham 'wrought' or 'doing' righteousness through faith. In other words, righteousness was the *fruit* of Abraham's faith. Righteousness in this case means doing good deeds. So faith enabled/gifted Abraham with the ability to offer up Isaac. The idea of "faith credited as righteousness" means or is idiomatic for "faith enabled Abraham to do good works". Thus, justification=vindication for Paul and James. Abraham believed God, and God credited/caused that faith to have the ability to perform miracles. Performing outward righteous acts is precisely what Vindication is. <br /><br />Consider, James 2:21-24 says Genesis 15:6 (faith credited as righteousness) was "fulfilled" in offering up Isaac, meaning God enabled or saw that Abraham's faith could do such a righteous action (at least in potency, if not in foresight). Thus, Abraham was vindicated both in Gen 15 and Gen 22. This fits with 1 Macc 2:52 which says: "Was not Abraham found faithful when tested, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness?"<br /><br />Consider, Galatians 3:5-6 says: "Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith, just as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness?" In other words, God supplies the Holy Spirit to "work miracles" by your faith, through you. This passage certainly lends credence, "just as" clearly links (though not obviously) "faith credited as righteousness" to refer to "faith works miracles by the Spirit". <br /><br />Consider, Psalm 106:31 says: "Then Phinehas stood up and intervened, and the plague was stayed. 31 And that was counted to him as righteousness" This situation takes more careful study by me, but it seems that in Numbers 25, Phineas arose with zeal and it allowed him to go into the tent and strike down a powerful chieftan who was openly flaunting sexual immorality inside the Holy Tent, almost like a demonic attack. The text says Phinehas took away God's anger by killing this sinner, God's main enemy. In this sense, Phinehas prefigures Jesus, taking away God's anger by turning it upon Satan. The 'zeal' was credited as righteousness, that is, the remarkable ability to stand up to a giant/demon, even though Phineas wasn't a priest yet, he was awarded with priesthood. <br /><br />Does Gen 15:5 mean that Abraham believed and thus was able to count the stars? Or see the stars during the day (Gen 15:12 says the sun had not set yet)? <br /><br />I'm still working this out, but it seems to make sense. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-67035497811951735512022-05-20T07:06:02.498-07:002022-05-20T07:06:02.498-07:00I consider this post to be one of my most inspired...I consider this post to be one of my most inspired and favorite works. I don't know how everything just came together. I credit the Blessed Virgin Mary and St Charles De Focauld at the moment, perhaps there are those I'm forgetting about (St Talitha). Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.com