tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post5976569193250264418..comments2024-03-15T09:07:15.798-07:00Comments on NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Why Protestants deny Intercessory PrayerNickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comBlogger251125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-57151589005184224552014-07-22T22:25:24.735-07:002014-07-22T22:25:24.735-07:00Hi Nick
I'm not sure if this post still opera...Hi Nick<br /><br />I'm not sure if this post still operative. But I had questions to ask: <br /><br />First,did Mary and the Saints possessed God's attribute such as Omnipresence where they, like God, fills all space and pervades all things with His invisible and immaterial substance while being distinct from all things thus can hear our prayer?<br /><br />Secondly, is this passage Psalm 94:9-10 refer to Mary and the Saints too? Because in my understanding it only applies to God for one reason and that He was our Creator. Are Mary and the Saints our Creators too, so they can hear us and etc?<br /><br />If not in what way they can hear our prayers? Again, such things (omnipresence and Psalm 94:9-10 belongs only to God alone.<br /><br />God bless<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />eboutynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-26220272272604312692014-05-07T09:58:17.534-07:002014-05-07T09:58:17.534-07:00Hello Felix,
I understand your point. It's a...Hello Felix, <br /><br />I understand your point. It's a subject I've talked about in the past and thought about a lot. The idea that salvation can be lost is common in non-Reformed strains of Protestantism, but really the Reformed have the most consistent position. Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-6596257915661560012014-04-27T19:15:05.225-07:002014-04-27T19:15:05.225-07:00Nick:
I'm uncertain if it's proper to id...Nick: <br /><br />I'm uncertain if it's proper to identify the "one-time" view as the "Protestant" view due to the existence of Arminians and such among the Protestant "tent" that affirm a "conditionality" to belief in regards to salvation. That is to say, I believe some hold that faith must be sustained, with God's assistance, by the believer. Mind you, Calvinist might preach something that sounds like this, but what I here am mentioning recognizes an actuality for apostasy, of a "regenerate" person becoming again "unregenerate".<br /><br />May all be well with you,<br />Felix ZamoraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-44831482379722206302013-05-24T08:36:29.444-07:002013-05-24T08:36:29.444-07:00>How could God electing is "determined arb...<em>>How could God electing is "determined arbitrarily by God apart from His foreknowledge"? How does that work?</em><br /><br />Well, one of the solutions between predestination and free will which I mentioned <a href="http://catholicnick.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-protestants-deny-intercessory-prayer.html?showComment=1369241138747#c7160436455546043276" rel="nofollow">above</a> is based upon the idea that God bases his election on his foreknowledge of our response to His grace.<br /><br />Under your system, as far as I understand, there is no such rationale. <br /><br /><br /><em>>You are to blame for being unforgiving. God allows you to follow your sin to the end.</em><br /><br />Okay, so if I'm to blame for my damnation, then does that mean that I'm not saved because of something I've <strong>done</strong>?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-6982790636984991532013-05-23T20:53:59.862-07:002013-05-23T20:53:59.862-07:00How could God electing is "determined arbitra...How could God electing is "determined arbitrarily by God apart from His foreknowledge"? How does that work?<br /><br />You are to blame for being unforgiving. God allows you to follow your sin to the end. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-52701097873109752902013-05-23T19:53:07.251-07:002013-05-23T19:53:07.251-07:00The problem with your statement is that you're...The problem with your statement is that you're assuming that election is determined arbitrarily by God apart from His foreknowledge (please see my above post above election.)<br /><br />You didn't really answer my question though. Who is to blame? Me or God?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-79091628517918199712013-05-23T15:39:02.199-07:002013-05-23T15:39:02.199-07:00You are lost because you were never elect. You sho...You are lost because you were never elect. You showed by your unforgiving heart you were never His to begin with. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-63136439667574764082013-05-23T12:58:28.619-07:002013-05-23T12:58:28.619-07:00>Would you say that those who don't forgive...<em>>Would you say that those who don't forgive demonstrate they are not elect?</em><br /><br />I think all you could really say from the outside is that you have a person who professes to be a Christian who is struggling with the sin of unforgiveness, not practising what his faith preaches.<br /><br /><br /><em>> Jesus is giving real choices.</em><br /><br />Great. So we have so far established that:<br /><br /><em>1. I have a real choice to forgive or not to forgive.<br />2. If I do not forgive others, God will not forgive me.<br />3. If I do not get God's forgiveness then I will not get into Heaven.</em><br /><br />So, following this train of thought, we can say:<br /><br /><em>If I do not choose to forgive I will not get into Heaven.</em><br /><br />In this situation, what causes me to be lost? Is it something <strong>I</strong> did or something <strong>God</strong> did?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-85548058684950999902013-05-23T12:25:01.551-07:002013-05-23T12:25:01.551-07:00Would you say that those who don't forgive dem...Would you say that those who don't forgive demonstrate they are not elect?<br /><br />Jesus is giving real choices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-1083337277152539002013-05-22T19:50:24.106-07:002013-05-22T19:50:24.106-07:00Those who refuse to forgive will not be part of th...Those who refuse to forgive will not be part of the elect. If you don't think of the elect as an arbitrary selection by God, this makes perfect sense. <br /><br />Now, my question?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-71801456882537709852013-05-22T18:39:47.111-07:002013-05-22T18:39:47.111-07:00Restless,
Your answer does not address how the el...Restless,<br /> Your answer does not address how the elect could be condemned if they don't forgive in Mark 11:25. Please answer how this could be. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-6953092455474901902013-05-22T14:39:49.181-07:002013-05-22T14:39:49.181-07:00"Just because a person is elect does not mean..."Just because a person is elect does not mean they cannot be deceived in believing false doctrines. Being elect does not protect one from error." <br /><br />You didn't answer my question (you have a nasty habit of doing that).<br /><br />Is there anyone who was predetermined by God to be the elect that participated in the Mass throughout their life and died while believing in the real presence in the Eucharist?<br /><br />For example, are the Roman Catholics known as Saint Augustine and Saint Aquinas part of the elect?<br /><br />Funny how your interpretation is truth but everyone else is in error. Do you have some magical knowledge or logic that nobody else has on this planet to come to your conclusions?cwdlaw223https://www.blogger.com/profile/02451813257438815066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-42395079108889648352013-05-22T14:05:49.065-07:002013-05-22T14:05:49.065-07:00>You danced around the question
Which bit of y...<em>>You danced around the question</em><br /><br />Which bit of your question don't you think I answered? I think I explained how predestination and free will could be harmonized: a declaration of God's foreknowledge rather than an arbitrary decision to save some and damn others. <br /><br />I would suggest that fits much better with Scripture's assertion that God desires that all men be saved. It captures His sovereignty without making a monster.<br /><br />In your reply could you also save time and answer my question: <strong>Is Jesus giving his listeners a real choice in these passages? Yes or no?</strong>Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-23863177700378142712013-05-22T10:48:24.649-07:002013-05-22T10:48:24.649-07:00Anonymous,
Without getting at which is a cause an...Anonymous,<br /><br />Without getting at which is a cause and which is an effect, I'll state that my position is that no one who is elected to salvation will also not forgive those who sin against them.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915100833433055951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-60008533321879459862013-05-22T09:48:06.097-07:002013-05-22T09:48:06.097-07:00You danced around the question. Let me ask it agai...You danced around the question. Let me ask it again:<br />"I want to know how you are going to harmonize the elect being foreordained to be saved with being condemned if they don't forgive. How could the elect be "holy and blameless before Him" (Eph 1:4) if they don't forgive?"<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-71604364555460432762013-05-22T09:45:38.747-07:002013-05-22T09:45:38.747-07:00>First you tell me how the elect can be condemn...<em>>First you tell me how the elect can be condemned for anything? How can someone whom God has elected from the foundation of the world not be saved? This would mean they will always forgive.</em><br /><br />A number of explanations could be given, but a common one would be that God predestines by <em>pronouncing</em> (rather than <em>deciding</em>) who will accept salvation based on His foreknowledge of whether or not His salvation will be accepted by them. Those who will choose to accept are "the elect".<br /><br />If you really want to wrap your head around this I would invite you to read <a href="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=214" rel="nofollow">Grace, Predestination, and the Salvific Will of God" by Fr. William Most</a>. It's online and it's free :-)<br /><br /><strong>So, returning to my question, is Jesus giving his listeners a real choice in these passages? It sounds as though they do. If they don't really have a real choice, then why bother give the warning?</strong>Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-69564571700509281732013-05-22T08:23:20.719-07:002013-05-22T08:23:20.719-07:00cwdlaw,
Just because a person is elect does not m...cwdlaw,<br /> Just because a person is elect does not mean they cannot be deceived in believing false doctrines. Being elect does not protect one from error. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-42240930604950569452013-05-22T08:22:34.087-07:002013-05-22T08:22:34.087-07:00Anonymous -
Is there anyone who was predetermined...Anonymous -<br /><br />Is there anyone who was predetermined by God to be the elect that participated in the Mass throughout their life and died while believing in the real presence in the Eucharist?<br /><br />If so, how could they be the elect with such beliefs?<br /><br />I'm curious how you will answer the questions above (assuming you answer them)cwdlaw223https://www.blogger.com/profile/02451813257438815066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-83665807875001776242013-05-22T06:39:13.946-07:002013-05-22T06:39:13.946-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.cwdlaw223https://www.blogger.com/profile/02451813257438815066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-46254878064157689102013-05-21T20:15:07.368-07:002013-05-21T20:15:07.368-07:00I thought I should add some definitions.
1. No ...I thought I should add some definitions.<br /><br />1. No one who is elect goes to hell.<br />2. No one who is not elect goes to heaven.<br />3. No one who is elect goes to heaven without being contrite for his sins, and so on. No obstinate sinners, we'll call it.<br />4. No one who was elect 'from the foundations of the world' winds up <i>not</i> elect.<br />Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915100833433055951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-20595389879997152472013-05-21T19:22:48.751-07:002013-05-21T19:22:48.751-07:00I suspect they were predestined to be saved by liv...I suspect they were predestined to be saved by living out their faith by forgiving those who sin against them, experiencing contrition for their own sins, feeding the hungry, etc.<br /><br />It's like faith is antivirus software that will combat the sin virus. it doesn't do any good until you run the application.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915100833433055951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-37230476382107841862013-05-21T16:02:14.419-07:002013-05-21T16:02:14.419-07:00I want to know how you are going to harmonize the ...I want to know how you are going to harmonize the elect being foreordained to be saved with being condemned if they don't forgive. How could the elect be "holy and blameless before Him" (Eph 1:4) if they don't forgive? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-4418242111445711992013-05-21T15:47:04.046-07:002013-05-21T15:47:04.046-07:00The IF-THEN nature of Jesus command is even cleare...The IF-THEN nature of Jesus command is even clearer in Matthew's Gospel:<br /><br /><em>"For <strong>if</strong> you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But <strong>if</strong> you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins"</em><br /><br />Jesus says <em>"if"</em> twice, as though it's a real choice. No?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-65583890436814445192013-05-21T15:45:23.638-07:002013-05-21T15:45:23.638-07:00First you tell me how the elect can be condemned f...First you tell me how the elect can be condemned for anything?<br /><br /> How can someone whom God has elected from the foundation of the world not be saved? This would mean they will always forgive. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-65154634167324245752013-05-21T15:25:48.445-07:002013-05-21T15:25:48.445-07:00>It means God did not elect you. He is giving y...<em>>It means God did not elect you. He is giving you justice and not mercy.</em><br /><br />So you're saying it's God's fault that I didn't forgive. Why then does Jesus speak as though it is something which we choose to do?<br /><br /><em>"Whenever you stand praying, forgive, <strong>if</strong> you have anything against anyone, <strong>so that</strong> your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses"</em><br /><br />When I read these words it sounds to me like Jesus is exhorting his listeners to a particular behaviour. They can either forgive or not forgive. There are consequences either way, but it is ultimately their choice.<br /><br />However, from what you've said it sounds like you don't think it is a choice at all. It sounds like you would understand Jesus' exhortation and offer to be nothing of the kind. If that's the case, why speak these words?<br /><br />Can you explain this disconnect please?Restless Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401126921440086739noreply@blogger.com