tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post4255299006056038769..comments2024-03-15T09:07:15.798-07:00Comments on NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Did Calvin believe in Christ's Active Obedience?Nickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-14738784310425041082012-03-10T14:18:34.015-08:002012-03-10T14:18:34.015-08:00Regarding the assertion that deniers of the imputa...Regarding the assertion that deniers of the imputation of active obedience make to the effect that Christ's obedience was but for His personal qualification as perfectly holy offering, there is a fascinating passage in the Institutes that seems to deride this assertion. You'll find it in Book ii, Chap xvii,Sect 6. Too long to qoote in full here.<br />As for what Christ acquired for us through His obedience, Calvin is clear it is not mere 'pardon', a fresh start, but actual righteousness. There are too numerous passages to quote to this effect, but in the very passage preceding the one above he writes:<br />'It had been superfluous and thereore absurd, that Christ should have been burdened with a curse, had it not been in order that, by paying what others owed he might acquire righteousness for them.'<br />Further in the same section he unambiguously states that the righteousness that comes by the observance of Law ' Christ , by taking this burden upon himself and reconciling us to God, as if we were the observers of the Law, merited favour for us.' This has to have reference to the active obedience, as we pay nothing towards pardon, for our righteounesses as Paul states ' do fall short of the glory of God' <br /><br />Ewan WilsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-81633318231417105902011-03-27T09:51:27.186-07:002011-03-27T09:51:27.186-07:00Hi Nick
I agree with what you say about the histo...Hi Nick<br /><br />I agree with what you say about the historical shift. <br /><br />I also take your point about S Clark and other quotations.<br /><br />And you may be right for a couple of Calvin quotes in a book I have that seemed to point in another direction I cannot track down.<br /><br />You do raise good questions about the Calvin quote itself.John Thomsonhttp://johngreenview.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-1373462784535774622011-03-26T12:24:51.585-07:002011-03-26T12:24:51.585-07:00Hi John,
I would like to see those quotes, becau...Hi John, <br /><br />I would like to see those quotes, because it seems to me that if he did affirm IAO, proponents like Dr Clark would have mentioned them instead of appealing to the quote he did. <br /><br />What I do believe could be possible is if Calvin spoke of 'positive righteousness' in passing here or there, but himself not realizing this would require an Active Obedience. <br /><br />What is interesting is that it seems that as we move further away from the Reformation in history, later theologians came to dogmatize views that were logical outworkings of the Reformers yet were not realized and would likely not have been accepted by the Reformers. The IAO issue is a good case in point. Calvin would never have accepted Active Obedience on an exegetical level.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-57820052586856267832011-03-26T03:10:57.021-07:002011-03-26T03:10:57.021-07:00Hi Nick
The reason I say he 'probably taught&...Hi Nick<br /><br />The reason I say he 'probably taught' IAO is there are various quotations from Calvin that mention IAO (though I would need to do a little research to find them). It seems to me he taught both even if this seems a bit incongruous.John Thomsonhttp://johngreenview.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-52137596273545781732011-03-17T10:46:38.758-07:002011-03-17T10:46:38.758-07:00I remember you had some similar quotes from the Re...I remember you had some similar quotes from the Reformers, though I don't remember if you analyzed this specific quote.<br /><br />I'm not sure how you can say Calvin "probably taught IAO," when we both agree he sees forgiveness of sins as the primary meaning of justification.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588905705506605875.post-6770518390133471072011-03-17T03:19:03.580-07:002011-03-17T03:19:03.580-07:00Interesting.
My view at the moment is that Calvin...Interesting.<br /><br />My view at the moment is that Calvin probably taught IAO but not in the way S Clark, Machen etc do. They teach Christ's death forgives us or clears us of sin and then we need Christ's active obedience to justify us. Calvin on the other hand is clear that forgiveness of sins is justification.<br /><br />However, I will be interested in any further research you do on this topic.<br /><br />Clark is clearly wrong about Christ's personal obedience. It clearly fitted him to be a lamb without blemish.John Thomsonhttp://johngreenview.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com